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  Cloud Linux

  • Today's date: 12-23-18.
  • We're phasing out Level 2. 
  • Not enough interest.
  • Too costly and time consuming to maintain.  
  • Access was on a per year basis.
  • Current Level 2 users:  You will continue to have access until your year is up.
  • Level 3 remains the same.
    • Kevin

  • 7-1-18.  Thanks to all who have used the valvinglogic website. The site started in 2004 giving riders and tuners from around the world the ability to share suspension tuning information and data. The valvinglogic database has served as a hub for that effort by providing basic dimensions for all internal components that control damping along with detailed dyno data for each fork and shock configuration. We have maintained three levels of access.
    • Level 1 - basic info - free.
    • Level 2 - intermediate info - fee based.
    • Level 3 - advanced info - fee based.
  • In the beginning it was simple. KYB and Showa used the same basic fork and shock configuration for all models. As upgrades were released the database was updated along with dyno data for each new fork and shock configuration. Then the SFF fork hit. The database was reprogrammed to accept single function damping and tools were developed to make appropriate comparisons between single function and dual function forks. The same for PSF and TAC air forks: reprogram; remeasure; and modify the database structure.
  • Then KTM's were added.  Their internals were slightly different and more changes were needed.  
  • Around 2012 I started pressure testing.  That was an eye opener, so the site was reprogrammed once again to accept pressure data. Select bikes now have basic dimensions of internal parts, shim stacks, detailed dyno test data and pressure data for each chamber in a fork or shock.
    • There are only a couple companies that do pressure testing and they keep it in house.  We are providing a once in a lifetime opportunity by offering access to this pressure data.   
  • Most recently, suspension response calculations have been added.  This was another eye opener.  As you can guess, more programming.  
  • With all these changes, the site has turned into a quagmire of over 1500 pages. There are sections set up to compare and analyze pressure data. Tools were designed for comparison of the various fork and shock components as well as suspension response calculations. The database itself contains over 100 tables and 1800 columns of data. That has made maintaining the database very complex and time consuming considering the wide range of bike models with constantly-changing suspension components. 
  • So for the first time in 14 years, I'm shutting down Level 1 and Level 2 access and refocusing future efforts on detailed Level 3 tuning. The valvinglogic focus going forward will be complete and precise analysis and testing of a few selected bike models. 


  LOGIN FOR DISCUSSION   [you need to login to post comments]
  Username - []  Level -    

1-3-2019     kevinstillwell [6] 29
12-23-2018     kevinstillwell [6] 28
It's been another month.

Regarding the comment above.
Once I put up a comment I don't like to remove it. But I can change my mind. So. . .

There has been a change of plans.
We are phasing out Level 2.
Not enough interest.
Too costly and time consuming to maintain.
Access was on a per year basis.
Current Level 2 users: You will continue to have access until your year is up.
Level 3 remains the same.
11-29-2018     kevinstillwell [6] 27
It's been a month since my last comment. For those interested, Level 2 is now available. There's gonna be a fee as I had to hire programmers.

If you are familiar with the site you know we have some good info, but not all info for all bikes. Things are pretty much the same as before, except that now we are leaning more toward KTM and are falling behind on the newer Japanese bikes.

Fee = $120 yr.
10-29-2018     kevinstillwell [6] 26
OK, here's the deal. The valvinglogic database has gotten super complicated. To get the free section going again I'm going to need some help.

MySQL database
PHP scripting language

if ( $username == 'I will help' ) {
print 'Great, we can get this thing going again!';
print 'Sorry, crap out of luck.';
10-22-2018     giotis [2452] 25
Hi Kevin.wish to come back soon.lvl 1 was so helpfull.thank you for your effort.
Greetings from Greece
10-3-2018     Silverbox [1056] 24
Hello Kevin
how to be able to go up to level 2 and 3?
Thank you again for all this work.
I am based in France and I used it for the original information when I do not have suspensions in original condition.
I can also post my valve readings, original suspensions.
Thanks again.
See you soon.
9-14-2018     kevinstillwell [6] 23
Hey everyone, I'm not ignoring ya'll. This is just taking a lot of time. I built the database for myself and added the free section for fun.

But the fun has turned into work. Seriously hard, mind numbing work. And it's taking longer than anticipated to get things back up and working as it should.

Hang in there. . . . . . . . . . . . . But this could all be for naught. At the rate things are going I may kick the bucket before finishing. LOL
9-3-2018     Peter van Leeuwen [2243] 22
Happy to pay for using the site, easier to pay monthly than a lump sum payment, even say you have to commit to a 2 year contract or something simular, to make it feasible for you
8-28-2018     The Norrman [2442] 21
Miss Level 1...used it a lot. If level 1 comes back, with a fee, is it the same as before or will it have more information then. What leveöl of fee do you have in mind?
8-17-2018     vincentseyb [1262] 20
Hi Kevin, I have used level one for a reference over the last 4 years. It has been of great value to me and like the others would like to see some sort of continuation of it even if a fee is required.
8-8-2018     lauener [822] 19
hi please could you let open the stock shim stack database it is very useful for all of us as we not have enough money for buying the last year yzf or rmz and we need to check the valving of the five year or older used bike that we just buy for a couple of bucks. the cons is such bike has been modified in every directions and your database is very to set the bike to stock parameters which are better
8-5-2018     ktm-don [2270] 18
Sorry to see the level 1 info go. I found it useful on many occasions, I don't know of any data source such as this.
7-27-2018     kevinstillwell [6] 17
Thanks for the support. But I may be at an impasse.

1) It is going to cost to keep Level 2 running.

2) Some have said they would pay a small fee.

3) I just looked, and from 2001 through 2018 there are 417 different year-model-size bikes in the database. I do not have information for all these bikes.

In the last few years I have focused on KTM and there is little available for the latest Showa and KYB suspended bikes.

4) So it's not likely anyone will pay for limited and incomplete information.

That puts me full circle back to just shutting it down. . . . I'm open for suggestions.
7-25-2018     Mxgringo [2366] 16
To bad level 1 is closed. I would be happy to pay a small fee for level 1 or 2. Would be fun to have a comment box for each shimstack, were we could discuss.
Kevin, i think you underestimate the number of
users you really have.
Your work is much appreciated.
7-23-2018     kevinstillwell [6] 15
I have only gotten a handful of responses since closing Level 1 and 2, indicating not that many use it.

But for those who may be interested, I am considering keeping Level 2 alive and should have it going in a week or two.
7-21-2018     kevinstillwell [6] 14
I saw a thread on TT. Misinformed and inaccurate comments. Looks like I need to explain things in simpler terms. ha ha.

The database is not the issue. One TT post suggested I was using the database as an excuse to end the Level 1 free portion of the site. Hell, I've spent the last 14 years building this stupid thing, why would I just drop it!

So here is the simple explanation. The problem is the PHP code that runs/displays the pages. "PHP is a widely-used open source general-purpose scripting language that is especially suited for web development and can be embedded into HTML".

It is the PHP code that is being deprecated. In other words, "features are deprecated rather than immediately removed, to provide backward compatibility, and to give programmers time to bring affected code into compliance with the new standard. Among the most common reasons for deprecation are: The feature has been replaced by a more powerful alternative feature". . . So there ya go. Know we all know exactly what's going on. :)

But all joking aside, it basically means that portions of PHP code the pages are written in are slowly being phased out. Each page has to be rewritten/updated with the new code. If not, the page will no longer open. When I'm not working on or entering data into the website, my time is spend dyno and pressure testing, revalving forks and shocks and working with riders. I had no clue this was coming. Took me totally by surprise and needless to say I was royally pissed.

The site has well over 1000 pages with some very complex sections needed to run the formulas and calculations we use to display dyno and pressure data along with the new response code. Pages are interconnected in ways I don't even remember. Making a change on one page can affect many, many others pages. That is why we are dropping Level 1 and Level 2 and focusing only on Level 3. You have to pick your battles. There is no way in hell I can fix all three levels. I will obviously concentrate on the sections that contain the most useful data.

I have put hundreds of hours into valvinglogic and do not want my actions, such as dropping Level 1 and 2 to be misconstrued from lack of information.

With that said, if there is anyone out there who has a simple fix or is willing to help, have at it. . . 10 - 12 programmers, a hundred hours each and we'd have this licked in no time. LOL

7-20-2018     kevinstillwell [6] 13
I'm working on it. All levels are affected by the changing code. Considering Level 2, but there's still a lot to be done. Also depends on how many would use it, especially since it's fee based. Wonder how many are willing to pay $8 - $10 a month.
7-20-2018     klebe75 [722] 12
Hi Kevin, how about the fees for accessing level 2?
7-19-2018     yelizov [2581] 11
how to access other levels?
7-18-2018     Dadee [2368] 10
Would love to see level 1 come back. Even if it was a small fee each year for access.

Hopefully you can improve on your database with a more modern website model.

Appreciate all your efforts.
7-18-2018     pipedoctorracing [1413] 9
wow no more level 1 that bites
7-18-2018     malinaservice [2349] 8
It is a pity that there are no more level 1.Please return
7-12-2018     kevinstillwell [6] 7
Thanks. When I first started the site the goal was for it to be free and not have any annoying ads. That was probably a mistake as free has resulted in no professional upgrades to the site, and now it's outdated. The irony is all the info is still sitting there, just difficult to access. Working on options.
7-11-2018     serg528 [601] 6
For years i used level one as base line reference. Thank you for your effort. So sad to see all that useful information disappear. perhaps an access fee should be charged to bring back level 1?
7-10-2018     kevinstillwell [6] 5
Ken, too early to tell how this will play out. Got a lot of planning and decisions to make. I'll let you know when I have something solid.
7-9-2018     Uncle Fen [58] 4
Kevin your always a wealth of info.Sad day. But I fully understand. Is there still going to be a fee based section, and if so can you e-mail me the pricing. Thanks for all you do. Ken Bates. KBR Suspension
7-9-2018     kevinstillwell [6] 3
Nice to hear you found it useful. Another reason I'm shutting it down is the website programming language. Started the site in 2004 knowing very little about databases. I was a suspension tuner, not computer programmer. So I purchased software that did all the complex coding. Click a button and it writes the code.

But just like bikes changing every few years, programming languages also change. The code used from 2004 has now expired (official term is deprecated). That means the code is slowly being phased out and at some point will no longer work. The new focus will be updating the website and database to meet these new standards as we move forward with detailed Level 3 analysis.
7-9-2018     twisti3s [2495] 2
Hi Mate loved using level 1 to check stock shim stacks and compare them, think is a shame to see this site close. Moto Melbourne
7-9-2018     kevinstillwell [6] 1
As I mentioned, we have closed Level 1. I thought it only fair to put up this section for anyone who might have comments or questions.